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  • Lingian is playing "my" "Keen meets the meats" Keen mod :)

    Discuss any other game beside Wolf3D

    Postby DoomJedi 30 Jun 2015, 18:33

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s5mBswbh9Y[/youtube]

    Alot of it is my art :)
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    Tricob1974

    Postby Ron 30 Jun 2015, 20:37

    Nice! Is all of it created by you (environments, enemies, pickups, etc)? Are there any easy to use editors for this? Looks quite interesting!
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    Postby DoomJedi 30 Jun 2015, 21:16

    Well, hard to talk in percentages, but I did alot of art for this mod.
    Most of the art you see at any time on any screen is my art.
    But yet quite some of the art is not mine, including most enemies, pools of something, Keen sprite itself...
    Hope it makes sense.

    I did the title screen, some enemies (including the final Boss), most of the platforms and tiles you see for all of the many themes of this mod, many pickups, scenery, all of the posters, the blue pipes, fridges, barbeque stands...trashcans are from BvsB (hope you noticed) - remade for Keen color mode :)
    Really too long to list my art contribution to it. Just enjoy to see people making mods and playing mods in my art.

    environments

    Yes. Most of them are done by me. Not all though.

    enemies

    Only the hot dog and the final Boss. But also most of the hazardous environments, moving metal squisher, vertical squisher, stake grill...

    pickups
    Well...I'd say 50% or so...salame is mine, the shishkebab stick...

    Are there any easy to use editors for this?

    Probably there are some, I use MS-Paint (XP) as always. Direct pixel art.
    Those are 16-color art palette (4-bit), so it's different from 8-bit Wolf3D. You need to be creative with color and shading dithering to create more "colors".

    You can start from existing Keen sprite on MS-Paint and work with its colors.

    Actually artwise many Keen mods are much more impressive...
    Hidden Text: Show
    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAFF0UlBaNo[/youtube]


    The biggest "difference" (from Wolf3D arting and mapping) and the biggest challenge is tiles-based art. Not only you need to make it to tile well in all directions - you need to be creative with what you put on a single tile to make it as much versatile in tiling as you can to create as much visual diversity with as little tiles...for smart reuses with different tile combinations and across themes. To plan a big fridge out of 16x16 tiles (not 64x64 like Wolf3D) with maximum art and size versatility of the fridge and its look - all this with minimum unique tiles - is HARD planning it took me quite some time to learn and master - and I mean HARD...hard planning of tiles, tiling, try and error...
    But this is one of the cool art and modding challenges...probably the biggest I had ever.

    I can put to DropBox my art for this Keen mod so you'll see my tilework directly. Also the tilesets of this mod. I'll put it now in DoomJedi folder.

    Also the are 2 types of sprites - masked (collision, transparency) and unmasked, background and sprites.
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    Postby DoomJedi 30 Jun 2015, 21:25

    Wolf3D Legacy\DoomJedi folder\Keen modding
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    Postby Ron 30 Jun 2015, 21:38

    Cool stuff! So you basically create the levels? Or is that a matter of putting your graphics together? Any mapping tools for that?

    I imagine it might be interesting to do Wolf3D in this Keen engine.
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    Postby DoomJedi 30 Jun 2015, 22:05

    Could be nice :)

    Just remember it's patching, Keen source was never released. So coding-wise it's tricky...patching skills and tutorials to learn.

    So you basically create the levels?
    This is tile-based...like Wolf3D...originally even used the same editor TED5.
    There are some skills to learn, obviously :) But community is very friendly
    http://www.pckf.com/index

    Masked art, unmasked...you tile them...tile (from a tileset) background layer, foreground layer, sprites...
    Image

    For all your Keen modding questions and tools (see "Modding: Tools" section) - see Keen modding forum:
    http://keenmodding.org/

    There is also "Commander Genius"...it's like modern source of Keen.
    http://clonekeenplus.sourceforge.net/

    There is also NetKeen - Keen with net multiplayer. many special levels and characters.
    http://www.shikadi.net/keenwiki/NetKeen
    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0f4r8wKOVY[/youtube]

    You can make multiplayer levels and mods.
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    Postby Ron 01 Jul 2015, 01:01

    Thanks for all the info, I'll make my way through it all when I have more time :) But all very interesting. The idea of doing Wolf3D in this engine has kinda taken a hold of me, I think I'll get back to it later. Especially with the BJ - Billy Blaze connection, wouldn't feel out of place.
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    Postby DoomJedi 01 Jul 2015, 11:54

    Base it on NetKeen and it can be multiplayer :) First Wolf3D multiplayer :)

    Actually, for Wolf3D, I'd consider using "Bio Menace" as a base, and not Keen. It's a bullet shooter (with automatic fire and grenades etc) and fits Wolf3D/BJ much better.
    Also better as an art source...the character can be remade into BJ much better, and have more militaristic and realistic tilesets and characters.

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6aQ7NUkW60 [/youtube]

    Just note platformers are a new world to learn...tile/platform-based mapping takes time to master, and much experience to have GREAT mapping (and balanced and challenging and decorated) by platform-game standards...though mapping experience from Wolf3D sure helps.

    Code patching is different from normal coding...and takes time to master the related tools and code.

    Tiles artwise is very new artform to master. And most of Wolf3D art won't fit directly into Keen/Platform engine...palette, perspective, size, whatever...Many Wolf3D textures can be remade into tiles that you can play with for different-sized walls, just to work on the 16x16 tiling...
    Most enemies can be based on same base recolored with different hats and attacks...maybe alt death frames....
    Bosses can be huge this time around, not limited by 64-tall limit,, only memory limits...which is cool...though we need them to look from the side...making them from scratch probably...

    Still, gameplay of jumping and climbing needs to be worked out not to look out of place in Wolf3D universe...maybe some tweaks to that...
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    Postby Tricob1974 07 Jul 2015, 08:48

    Why am I getting this craving to do Pac-man in the Wolf3D engine again? After mapping out the level, I knew playing the maze in the engine wasn't going to survive the transition very well. But now I'm coming up with an idea to have the characters appear on a 2-D version of the maze as well, and draw the 2-D version on the statusbar. It's not as complicated to code as it sounds; the position on the 2-D maze is only updated when the character has completely moved one square. The tilex/tiley variables could be used as a guide for the 2-D layout, and it would be drawn in the DrawFace routine. I'd have to draw the mazes from scratch and save them in VGAGRAPH pics, but that's something I can live with.

    The code will be slower than the Wolf3D engine I imagine, but I dunno; there's no doors or Pushwalls for the code to work with, and there's always five actors in each level altogether - not 40 or 140 like most Wolf3D maps.

    Of course, I have to actually get the Dev C++ compiler up and running again before I even attempt the code for this. But I can always do the maps, graphics, and sound in the meantime ...
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    Postby Officer-Michael John 27 Jun 2016, 15:48

    I record a Keen meets the meats (Keen mod). I like doing a full playtrought. :)
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