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    Discuss any other game beside Wolf3D

    Postby DoomJedi 03 Jul 2014, 15:57

    Ron wrote:We should have more of a plan to begin with. Right now our beginnings always make the same mistake: mistaking having a lot of ideas with creativity

    Well, ideas are sort of creativity...we just not filter well that much possible features with mod's core vision. Especially having such capable coder it's a seduction for any (?) modder....and a coder who is full with ideas at most times and get "burned" without such, or with too boring set of features....
    The main feature of our main mod was - LinuxWolf's idea. And now we can't see the mod without it...at all.
    Let's not be overly harsh with ourselves, I do think we're creative modders and we do show alot of creativity in our modding process, that's why our modding is so addicting to me :)

    Ideas are added, but they don't really come from the core of the mod. ..... I'm surprised our mods turn out well, but they could be better.

    Well, in other internal thread I did mention (as a reasoning to add certain later dismissed feature) that our next mod is...1-time mod (in many more ways than one actually), I don't think we'll make such mods in the future....not that it's a bad mod in any way....but it's a good thing it's a 1-time effort. It's good it's there, and it's good there won't be another one like it. Not only scale-wise, but planning-wise as well.
    Well...LinuxWolf has certain effect on our team and the coding scale/quality of the mod. For the first time I felt I was modding with only my imagination to limit me, with no coding limitations whatsoever, Linuxwolf kindly granted us any wish (even before we had time to rethink it :) ) and moreso added many cool stuff of his own. This was so tempting for me as a modder not to get use of (and also to keep LinuxWolf around busy coding cool stuff)...like I've written to WLHack in a PM - this mod is "DoomJedi on a stick". This is me just going crazy with my wet...wolf3d dreams...it's a one-time modding joygasm.
    But we gotta be fair to this project - with all it's mistakes and weaknesses - not only it's development was far better that development of "Eisenfaust" (well, that was not a hard challenge to be compared with, heh :) ) - I think we did show alot of creativity in it. And for a 1-time effort it was worth it. To "settle down" as grownup modder and make more...like I call them "boutique mods" - I had first to go crazy/exploding with "all you can code in"/"all you can eat" ideas and dreams of a "young modder DoomJedi"....just like doing crazy sex before you settle down for a partner....that was just crazy modding sex :)
    Moreso - that was a very good learning curve and conclusions....this was an important step in our overall evolution is a modding team, and our next mods not only will much benefit from it - but that already do now, they are already more and better planned and things are not a feature-festival anymore, but a much more "boutique" mods with core vision and features corresponding to such (which make it actually not much less advanced than "feature-festival" mods, but in a more natural and delicate/shy way), more of a form of modding art and not just hobby. B:NML is one example.

    But not also that - such 1-time effort was also to build an ultimate engine for "Team RayCast" to be used in all future mods...and it's not less important...it's 1-time big effort, but once it's done - it saves so much effort and time later, and you're still free to add mod-specific (core corresponding) features to it....but we gotta finish the times when each our new mod we reinvent new engine from scratch....scrapping "Eisenfaust" engine for example....

    And music as well, as it might be inconsistent with one another.

    ...not if we reuse the same music for more than one level.... :oops:
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    Postby Tricob1974 03 Jul 2014, 18:11

    Here's my two cents (Do we need to adjust that phrase now because of inflation?):

    Ron wrote:We should have more of a plan to begin with.
    I think the problem is more that Max is using a method that worked fine for some of his mods, but the plan needs adjustment when it's applied to some of the others.

    Right now our beginnings always make the same mistake: mistaking having a lot of ideas with creativity. Ideas are added, but they don't really come from the core of the mod.
    I think the key is more having the ideas gel together, and having the ideas survive the transition from initiation to genuine following-through of the idea.
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    Postby Ron 03 Jul 2014, 18:36

    We shouldn't be overly harsh, but we should have a voice that says something else than 'we're the best team making the best mods' in this team. :D And I wasn't referring to Linuxwolf when I mentioned that, in general I think Linuxwolf has ideas that stick to the core of a mod. I was referring to your tendency to have, at times, almost stream-of-concious style of idea spouting, which clutters a discussion more than it adds to it. You should distill your ideas a bit more before throwing them into a group, think about their functionality, and let go of ideas when the team has spoken out against them. Not saying we're not a creative team, but it also needs to be functionally creative in order for it to add value.

    But you know, we're also different people and in that regard, it is good that we have such different mods. Because Legacy and B:NML are miles apart from one another. But it's useful to create within different genres.
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    Postby Ron 03 Jul 2014, 18:36

    On the other hand, we're just an amateur modding team, so perhaps I shouldn't take the proces too seriously.
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    Postby WLHack 03 Jul 2014, 20:30

    Just out of curiosity, have you ever wondered making an indie-game instead of a mod? It seems we have all the talent needed for such a project here, but only thing missing is an idea.
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    Postby Tricob1974 03 Jul 2014, 22:54

    I know I have; this would be part of the Action 52 Owns collection. It's basically an outer-space shooter where your ship is equipped with a boomerang. The boomerang picks up items that destroyed enemies leave behind. There's numerous types of enemies, and they all have their own attack patterns and endurance. Gameplay objectives are divided into five levels, which repeat themselves afterward, somewhat like the arcade game Joust. It basically takes a lot of Galactix's imperfections and improves upon them.
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    Postby WLHack 03 Jul 2014, 23:21

    Tricob1974 wrote:I know I have; this would be part of the Action 52 Owns collection. It's basically an outer-space shooter where your ship is equipped with a boomerang. The boomerang picks up items that destroyed enemies leave behind. There's numerous types of enemies, and they all have their own attack patterns and endurance. Gameplay objectives are divided into five levels, which repeat themselves afterward, somewhat like the arcade game Joust. It basically takes a lot of Galactix's imperfections and improves upon them.


    Hmm... I watched the Galactix gameplay and it seems to be quite simple game to make. Of course thinking up a variety of interesting enemies would take some time. If you ever decide to start working on this, I would be interested to see the result.
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    Postby DoomJedi 03 Jul 2014, 23:37

    Well, we thought of it...at least I did...but I don't feel professional enough or capable enough for biggesr scales, higher resolutions, all-new resources...I think like a modder, work like a modder...it's such a different state of mind....

    YOU - on the other hand....have no reason not to go indie :)
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    Postby DoomJedi 04 Jul 2014, 00:44

    Ron wrote: was referring to your tendency to have, at times, almost stream-of-concious style of idea spouting, which clutters a discussion more than it adds to it.

    ...well...I guess I've deserved that... *ROM*
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    Postby Ron 04 Jul 2014, 00:55

    Well, we've known each other for years now, so we can be honest with each other. For the benefit of the creation proces. Not saying you shouldn't have a say, obviously. But try to think suggestions through. And if the team votes against it, let it go.
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